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Post by The Administrator on May 6, 2009 14:45:56 GMT -5
I've heard some complaints regarding the Walsh setting, and I agree, it likely does need to get changed, due to the fact that that setting was originally created nearly three years ago, and it has been pointed out that Walsh clashes greatly against the rest of MCS's universe. This links tothe post where the location information can be found.Does anyone have any suggestions as to what can be done to level this off?
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Dowser
Super
Samir Romero Nu?ez
Posts: 8
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Post by Dowser on May 6, 2009 14:53:46 GMT -5
It should either be more subtle, or there should be a more distinct separation from the rest of the world.
For magic to exist in the setting, it needs to be rare, or common. If it's common, then it shouldn't be limited to Walsh. It should be available in all cities to a certain degree (obviously, the degrees can be different, but a complete absence of it in all but one place doesn't make sense).
If there's actually a major obstacle to get to Walsh - like some kind of dimensional flux that surrounds the city and such, that might be interesting. Then it would make sense that the power only exists there, and why normal people can't bring magic talisman's and swords over. If it has interesting effects on other people's powers, that's even better.
Magic should also be clearly defined, so as to not to give infinite versatility compared to superhero powers.
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Post by The Administrator on May 6, 2009 15:03:56 GMT -5
I believe the rest of the information in that doesn't exclude magic from existing in the other settings, so much as making it far more likely to occur in Walsh, but yes, I understand your point here.
The idea of having a dimensional flux around the city is an interesting idea, I agree- and yes, magic does need to be clearly defined, which is what I'll be looking for in any character applications that involve magic.
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Post by The Red Scare on May 6, 2009 21:12:01 GMT -5
If magic is in a superhero setting, I tend to prefer it to be cthulhu-esque magic. The kind of magic that involves pouring over ancient texts; performing long rituals; invoking gods, spirits, and demons; etc. Not the magic of most video games and D&D where the wizard points his finger and a magic missile leaps forth at the uttering of a single word.
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Post by Fourteenth on May 6, 2009 21:24:48 GMT -5
Agreed.
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Dowser
Super
Samir Romero Nu?ez
Posts: 8
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Post by Dowser on May 7, 2009 12:13:40 GMT -5
If magic is in a superhero setting, I tend to prefer it to be cthulhu-esque magic. The kind of magic that involves pouring over ancient texts; performing long rituals; invoking gods, spirits, and demons; etc. Not the magic of most video games and D&D where the wizard points his finger and a magic missile leaps forth at the uttering of a single word. how do you feel about my character, ominous? he reads Ley Lines and energy flow in such a way that makes him super lucky.
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Post by Fourteenth on May 8, 2009 12:11:09 GMT -5
Ok, after a little trouble, I actually found where Walsh gets described, and I think we should definitely be going for a more 'Buffy' feel than a 'Harry-fucking-Potter' one in regards to a mystical neighborhood. A suburb with secrets more than magical police. I think there are a lot of shows that have magical/occult themes in them that serve as a good backdrop for what works.
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Post by The Administrator on May 8, 2009 16:31:38 GMT -5
I have changed it from the original over the top levels, and what is seen currently is what I have changed it to become.
Just saying 'fix it to be like this' does not say how I should go about it. Suggestions as to how to do that?
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Post by Fourteenth on May 8, 2009 17:16:36 GMT -5
Sorry, my bad.
Ahem, well anyway, I'm thinking just make it more subtle. Have the place resemble suburban, small-town America for the most part, a high school, town council, the forest is a nice touch and should stay, maybe throw in an old farm field. It shouldn't be agrarian by any stretch of the word, but maybe an old farm, or a creaky barn or two as an indication of its connection to old-style America.
Now we add the supernatural. I feel it's important that the supernatural here should be very rough, subtle, and not particularly powerful. Maybe some kids playing with an ouija board every so often would be common, but you've also got small groups of cults or otherwise sinister and otherworldly threats. Maybe a very careful vampire, werewolf, whatever.
The police should be fairly ordinary, and skeptical of the supernatural goings, and more suited to deal with ordinary crime. Uh, that's all I can think of for now.
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Post by The Rubber Baron on May 8, 2009 17:31:59 GMT -5
A buffy-esque style of magic in a superhero setting doesn't sound any better than a Dungeons and Dragons style of magic in a super hero setting.
I like the idea that it's a cabal of people that are aware of magic - and most are in the dark. But magic shouldn't be learnable, and if it is, only to a very small degree. It should be based almost completely on talent. These cabals - good evil, or perhaps amoral, are constantly seeking out individuals that use magic and take them under it's wing.
Magic would be reliant on energy, like ley lines - a kind of "weave" that is invisible to the human eye. Talented individuals can mold the weave, in specialized ways.
Rather than having the entirety of the police force have a cache of talismans and magic swords, maybe there's actually a secret section of the police run by the city - Walsh's X-men, except they're more like X-Wizards, and they're government run (even if covertly).
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Post by Fourteenth on May 8, 2009 17:35:17 GMT -5
Mind you, I've never watched Buffy, but I'm under the impression it was more overt than you're making it out to be.
But I agree. There should be magic uses, but for whatever reason, they should not be so open about their abilities. As for magic police, a special section of the government could deal with it, but I don't believe in a local authority having the training or knowledge.
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Post by Daniel Palmer on May 8, 2009 18:41:12 GMT -5
Long post alert! A suggestion on a possible magic system.
Magical power might be drawn from willpower and extensive study, or through a deal with more magically-inclined beings (they grant you magical power, you do their bidding if they should call, and so on up the magical hierarchy.)
An example of a possible power scaling: A simple spell (minor effects that duplicate common non-magical means or tools, such as creating a light source or magically opening a padlock) might require a few seconds of hand-gesturing and/or magic words. A moderately experienced mage has probably memorized a good number of these spells; an experienced mage could seldomly improvise one on the spot.
A more advanced spell (effects that bend otherwise natural forces to one's will, such as fireball, personal flight, or cracking a safe) might require any or all of he following: chanting, gesturing, body posture, or a magic circle, with a casting time of one or several minutes. Similar-themed spells might have similar casting methods, naturally leading to specialization in one, maybe two themed areas. A moderately experienced mage might know a handful of fire-related spells; an experienced mage would rely on the same handful of spells but also be adaptable in a pinch (e.g. control the direction of a fireball mid-flight, or mold it into a cube rather than a sphere.) Magical duels might consist of counterspelling or delaying the opponent's casting while trying to get your own spells off; only an extremely experienced mage can successfully partake in such a duel.
The most advanced spells (strictly supernatural effects, for example clairvoyance or resurrection) might require a group of mages or cultists under an experienced leader, and could take days to prepare and cast. It will almost certainly require extensive research and preparation; the knowledge that any particular ritual even exists will be extremely rare (buried in an ancient library, designed and perfected through generations of experimentation, divinely granted only to a select few, pick one.)
Effects such as time stop or reality warping are strictly out of the question for magical humans.
edit: And you might also get the occasional pseudo-magic character such as Dowser, who is able to instinctively tap into magic energies to much greater effect than normal humans.
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Post by Daniel Palmer on May 9, 2009 23:40:57 GMT -5
So, which of the following (one or more) do we want to use to justify the existence of magic?
The first two choices are traditional fantastic means for magic, a possible outline in my post above, where the individual masters magic. The last two are more ingrained within the universe, where the individual is subservient to magic forces.
-Inborn talent - rare, possibly unpredictable effects -Extensive study - takes many years, unreliable knowledge -Power granted by magical beings - Cthulhu-esque magic, tough to get into the closed circles, and membership is for life -Ley lines, manipulating magical energy - unconsciously manifests as a specific power (to use Dowser as a precedent) -other?
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Post by The Rubber Baron on May 10, 2009 4:45:06 GMT -5
I might suggest using all of them as equal means to be able to use power. It gives everyone pretty good versitility to be able to make a character, and all of them make sense.
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Post by Fourteenth on May 10, 2009 11:42:11 GMT -5
Agreed, and don't forget magic items. Green Lantern style, except a little less metro. Like maybe a sword.
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Post by Daniel Palmer on May 11, 2009 23:59:52 GMT -5
Ok, more thinking about this - here's how I think the magic system will work.
All forms of magic draw mana from ley lines and intersections of ley lines, both of which are far more common in Walsh than anywhere else (although they do exist in other places.) Thus, Walsh is a natural home to many magic wielders, who find themselves more powerful there.
Magical characters fall into one of these categories:
1. The character can manipulate or tap into ley lines to generate a single, defined effect, basically a superpower for most intents and purposes. This is an innate ability and cannot be trained or learned. They may or may not be able to visualize the actual ley lines. (Dowser is the precedent character of this category.)
2. The character has some magical talent but little or no magic education, and have joined a cult or similar organization. Gaining entrance into a cult is often by invitation only, and membership is typically for life so members don't reveal rare and highly prized magical secrets to rival groups. A cult will typically spend years devoted to researching a single powerful spell, either accomplishing a supernatural effect or a natural effect over a suitably large area, such as a city block or even more. Example spells: resurrection, a miniature natural disaster.
And if a lone cult's actions were not enough, cults tend to view each other as rivals competing for lost knowledge and prime magical real estate, and every number of years, a magical turf war will break out...
3. The character has come into possession of a magic item(s), that they use to complement their natural or supernatural powers and abilities. Alternatively, they have become a supernatural creature (werewolf, etc.) by whatever means.
4. I saved this one for last since it is the most text-heavy description. The character can learn and cast spells like traditional fantasy mages (the D&D Wizard class, for example.) Such characters, unlike the first category, tend to favor versatility over specialty, although they will favor certain spells over others depending on their personality. Generally speaking, spells require both speaking, and hand and/or body movements. More advanced spells might require a magic circle.
It is highly recommended for magical characters of this category to list their specialty spells, or the effects thereof, in their profile.
-A "simple" spell will create a common natural effect or the actions of a simple, common tool: e.g. creating a light source or magically opening a padlock. Casting time is measured in seconds. A moderately experienced mage has probably memorized a good number of these spells; an experienced mage could seldomly improvise one on the spot.
-An "advanced" spell will bend otherwise natural forces to one's will, or duplicate a complex tool(s): e.g. fireball, personal flight, or cracking a safe. Casting time is measured in minutes. Similar-themed spells might have similar casting methods, naturally leading to specialization in a themed area. A moderately experienced mage might know a handful of fire-related spells; an experienced mage would rely on the same handful of spells but also be adaptable in a pinch (e.g. control the direction of a fireball mid-flight, or mold it into a cube rather than a sphere.)
-Due to the relatively long casting times, many mages use their apprentice(s) to distract and harry potential targets with quick, simple spells, while they cast their main spell. Against other mages, this affair becomes a highly ritualized magical duel, where both sides agree on a time and place, and a fixed length of time beforehand to plan strategy, and prepare spells and counterspells. A whole subculture has sprung up around magical duels as competitions, and duels between the most experienced mages have often been compared to skilled chess games.
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